Showing posts with label Abaddon. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Abaddon. Show all posts
Thursday, January 18, 2018
More Abaddon and Abyss, plus Tartarus
Here are some more passages that link abaddon with sheol:
Psalm 88:10-12 says to god: "Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do those who are dead rise up and praise you? (Hmm. The writer of the Psalm doesn't know about the judgement day?) Is your love declared in the grave (sheol) your faithfulness in destruction (abaddon)? Are your wonders known in the places of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?" The land of oblivion...That doesn't sound like the christian hell, does it? If you read the whole of Psalm 88, you see that the author is afraid and feels like he is dead, " in the lowest pit, in the darkest depths." Those who lie in the grave are cut off from god's care and he forgets about them. Where is the concept of eternal life in this passage? We've covered verses about pits in this series of posts about hell and punishment after death. Those pits could be referring to abaddon.
Proverbs 15:11 says "Death (sheol) and destruction (abaddon) lie open before the lord, how much more the hearts of men." Proverbs 27:20 says "Death (sheol) and destruction (abaddon) are never satisfied and neither are the eyes of a man."
Going back to the word abyss, I find that, beside the book of Revelation, there are only two other appearances of the word abyss in the New Testament. One is found in Luke 8:31. This is the story of the demon possessed man who has many demons. "The demons begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the abyss." Jesus complies with the demons' request to be sent into some pigs. Then the pigs rush down a steep bank into the lake and are drowned. What happened to the demons then? Did they end up in the abyss anyway? Wasn't that kind of a dirty trick?
The other instance is in Romans 10:6-8, where the author says that righteousness based on faith does not ask who will bring christ down from heaven. Nor does it ask who will bring christ up from the abyss. Faith says that "the word" (christ) is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. In other words, people of faith don't focus on the physical location of jesus's body. They focus on faith and the statement of belief that god raised jesus from the dead. That will save them. From what? Not death. Everybody dies. Also, why would Jesus need to be raised from the abyss? Is that where Jesus went when he died? He wasn't raised directly from the tomb?
Finally, let's look at an interesting passage in 2 Peter 2:24 that says "God did not spare the angels when they sinned but cast them into hell, delivering them in chains to be held in gloomy darkness until their judgement." What makes this so interesting is the word translated into hell, in both the KJV and the NIV, is actually the greek word Tartarus. This is the only occurrance of the word in the whole bible. At the time 2 Peter was written, Tartarus had been part of Greek mythology for at least seven hundred years. There was a Greek tradition that Tartarus was a "deep abyss that is used as a dungeon of torment and suffering for the wicked and as the prison for the titans" (Wikipedia) Isn't it interesting that the beast of Revelation emerges from the abyss and satan gets chained up in it? Is that the same abyss as Tartarus? Isn't it also interesting that 2 Peter calls this abyss a holding place, like a prison, of gloomy darkness? No fire. Judgement comes later.
Apparently some christians have tried to get around this obviously Greek synchretism and have said that the Greeks got the idea of Tartarus from the Jews and stories of fallen angels being imprisoned. Which more likely came first, the Iliad or the Bible?
Wednesday, January 17, 2018
The Abyss or "bottomless pit"
Now let us look at the abyss in which Revelation 20 told us Satan was emprisoned for a thousand years. Upon further examination, I find the word abyss does not occur in the KJV. It uses the phrase "bottomless pit" in all the relevant Revelation passages. The greek word is abussos. Is a bottomless pit a real thing? Is that anything like a black hole?
In Revelation, the abyss is first found in chapter nine. There it is described in graphic detail. Let us bypass talk of angels, trumpets, and falling stars with keys. In this passage, the abyss is a locked shaft. When it is opened, so much smoke rises out of it that the sun and sky are darkened. (Sounds like a volcanic explosion) Out of the smoke comes stinging locusts. (Burning ash?) These locust's job is to torture those who do not have the name of god written on their foreheads, for five months. The torture will be so intense that people will wish they were dead.
These locusts are described as having human faces, women's hair, and teeth like lions. (I'm assuming women's hair means long hair, because hair is hair.) They have armor and sound like the thundering of horses and chariots in battle. Their tails have stings like scorpions. They have a king who is the angel of the abyss. His Hebrew name is Abaddon and his Greek name is Apollyon. As far as I can tell, the name Apollyon is not mentioned in Greeek literature and may be made up by the author of Revelation. He is definitely not the equivalent of Satan. Remember, Satan was imprisoned in the abyss in chapter 20. Now, who do you suppose created the abyss, Abaddon, and the torturing locusts? Ding, ding. Our friendly neighborhood deity, of course! If not him, who else? Which day of creation was that? Or did god need a torture chamber even before he produced human beings?
Revelation 11:7 talks about a beast (not Satan) coming up out of the abyss to wage war with some prophets and kill them. Rev. 17:8 also mentions this beast coming out of the abyss and going to his destruction. The word destruction in that verse is from the greek root apoleia. This word is found often in the New Testament and is translated in various versions as the words destruction, perdition, and damnation. These are all words that are used by Christians as synonymous with hell. Destruction (root apoleia) is where the wide path leads in Matthew 7:13.
Notice that the root word for destruction has a similar structure to the word Apollyon who is the king of the abyss. The author of Revelation tells us Apollyon is the Greek word for the Hebrew name Abaddon. If you have been reading the bible along with me, you might remember that we have encountered abaddon before, in the book of Job. The KJV and NIV translate abaddon in these passages as "destruction." You can find it in Job 26:6, 28:22, and 31:12. In Job, abaddon is also associated with sheol (translated as death). They are both underground. However, Sheol and Abaddon are not the same thing. Therefore, Hades and Abaddon are not the same thing either. Abaddon is never translated as hell. Clear as mud?
More to come.
In Revelation, the abyss is first found in chapter nine. There it is described in graphic detail. Let us bypass talk of angels, trumpets, and falling stars with keys. In this passage, the abyss is a locked shaft. When it is opened, so much smoke rises out of it that the sun and sky are darkened. (Sounds like a volcanic explosion) Out of the smoke comes stinging locusts. (Burning ash?) These locust's job is to torture those who do not have the name of god written on their foreheads, for five months. The torture will be so intense that people will wish they were dead.
These locusts are described as having human faces, women's hair, and teeth like lions. (I'm assuming women's hair means long hair, because hair is hair.) They have armor and sound like the thundering of horses and chariots in battle. Their tails have stings like scorpions. They have a king who is the angel of the abyss. His Hebrew name is Abaddon and his Greek name is Apollyon. As far as I can tell, the name Apollyon is not mentioned in Greeek literature and may be made up by the author of Revelation. He is definitely not the equivalent of Satan. Remember, Satan was imprisoned in the abyss in chapter 20. Now, who do you suppose created the abyss, Abaddon, and the torturing locusts? Ding, ding. Our friendly neighborhood deity, of course! If not him, who else? Which day of creation was that? Or did god need a torture chamber even before he produced human beings?
Revelation 11:7 talks about a beast (not Satan) coming up out of the abyss to wage war with some prophets and kill them. Rev. 17:8 also mentions this beast coming out of the abyss and going to his destruction. The word destruction in that verse is from the greek root apoleia. This word is found often in the New Testament and is translated in various versions as the words destruction, perdition, and damnation. These are all words that are used by Christians as synonymous with hell. Destruction (root apoleia) is where the wide path leads in Matthew 7:13.
Notice that the root word for destruction has a similar structure to the word Apollyon who is the king of the abyss. The author of Revelation tells us Apollyon is the Greek word for the Hebrew name Abaddon. If you have been reading the bible along with me, you might remember that we have encountered abaddon before, in the book of Job. The KJV and NIV translate abaddon in these passages as "destruction." You can find it in Job 26:6, 28:22, and 31:12. In Job, abaddon is also associated with sheol (translated as death). They are both underground. However, Sheol and Abaddon are not the same thing. Therefore, Hades and Abaddon are not the same thing either. Abaddon is never translated as hell. Clear as mud?
More to come.
Thursday, December 14, 2017
Hell part 3
As we have seen, the Old Testament hell is actually sheol, which is not the same as the hell taught in christianity. It is the realm of the dead, the grave. It is underground or some nebulous place in the depths, "down below." It is often associated with a pit. The word pit associated with the grave or death in the Old Testament often comes from the Hebrew word "bowr." This word appears to have meanings associated with a hole in the ground that is a well or cistern, or a dungeon. The word pit associated with death and the grave in the KJV is also sometimes translated from the Hebrew word "shachath." This word has connotations of a ditch or a trap. Notice that these are all words associated with under the ground or holes in the earth.
Sometimes the word destruction is associated with sheol. Then, it is often from the word abaddon. They are often seen together as in "death and destruction." (Sheol and Abaddon) Abaddon appears to be a distinct part of hell, perhaps a bottomless pit. There is that word pit again.
Besides Sheol, the Old Testament does have a few descriptions of a punishment after death at some "end time," but it is not named as a particular place. Some christians claim these are descrptions of hell. Let's look at some of them.
First let's look at Daniel chapter 12: 1-2. "....at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel is an apocalyptic/prophetic book, written anonymously, about 200 years before Jesus, according to many scholars. My NIV study bible says its writers think Daniel was written around the time period of its events, about 560 BC, at least partly by Daniel. I have not studied the book of Daniel in depth, but this passage does appear to refer to an afterlife. The phrase "your people" obviously refers to jews. Why do christians think it speaks to them? The book of Daniel was written by Jews for Jews. Also, in practical terms, what does it mean to awaken to everlasting shame and contempt?
The study bible references lead me from Daniel to another supposedly prophetic book, Isaiah. Again, this book was written by Jews, for Jews. In chapter 26, a future day of judgement is being sung about. In verse 11, Isaiah begs Yahweh to let the fire reserved for his enemies consume them. In verse fourteen we see Isaiah say that God's enemies are dead "they live no more." Yahweh "punished them and brought them to ruin." He wiped out all memory of them. This doesn't sound like a literal hell. In fact, from there the study bible leads me to Psalm 9:5 where the worse thing that can happen to the wicked is that they are utterly destroyed, their names blotted out, and the memory of them perishes. Really? Okay, being destroyed is totally the pits. We have only one life. But once you are gone, so what if noone remembers you. You won't know.
Let us remember that Daniel, Isaiah, and Psalms are written in poetic and metaphoric language. They are trash talking about the enemies of the Israelites. I don't think these passages were meant to be doctrinal statements about what happens to nonbelievers in christianity.
Sometimes the word destruction is associated with sheol. Then, it is often from the word abaddon. They are often seen together as in "death and destruction." (Sheol and Abaddon) Abaddon appears to be a distinct part of hell, perhaps a bottomless pit. There is that word pit again.
Besides Sheol, the Old Testament does have a few descriptions of a punishment after death at some "end time," but it is not named as a particular place. Some christians claim these are descrptions of hell. Let's look at some of them.
First let's look at Daniel chapter 12: 1-2. "....at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel is an apocalyptic/prophetic book, written anonymously, about 200 years before Jesus, according to many scholars. My NIV study bible says its writers think Daniel was written around the time period of its events, about 560 BC, at least partly by Daniel. I have not studied the book of Daniel in depth, but this passage does appear to refer to an afterlife. The phrase "your people" obviously refers to jews. Why do christians think it speaks to them? The book of Daniel was written by Jews for Jews. Also, in practical terms, what does it mean to awaken to everlasting shame and contempt?
The study bible references lead me from Daniel to another supposedly prophetic book, Isaiah. Again, this book was written by Jews, for Jews. In chapter 26, a future day of judgement is being sung about. In verse 11, Isaiah begs Yahweh to let the fire reserved for his enemies consume them. In verse fourteen we see Isaiah say that God's enemies are dead "they live no more." Yahweh "punished them and brought them to ruin." He wiped out all memory of them. This doesn't sound like a literal hell. In fact, from there the study bible leads me to Psalm 9:5 where the worse thing that can happen to the wicked is that they are utterly destroyed, their names blotted out, and the memory of them perishes. Really? Okay, being destroyed is totally the pits. We have only one life. But once you are gone, so what if noone remembers you. You won't know.
Let us remember that Daniel, Isaiah, and Psalms are written in poetic and metaphoric language. They are trash talking about the enemies of the Israelites. I don't think these passages were meant to be doctrinal statements about what happens to nonbelievers in christianity.
Tuesday, September 20, 2016
Job 27 and 28
After reading chapter 27:
*Job continues talking to his friends. He continues to deny any wrong doing and insists he has a clear conscience. Then he goes on a rant about the fate of his enemies, may it be like the fate of the wicked. Verses 13-23 are a poetic description of the horrid things that will happen to the wicked and their descendents. It makes no sense to me, because in previous chapters Job has made a point that bad things don't always happen to the wicked. In fact they often prosper. Now he seems to be saying the same kinds of things his friends have said, the things they used as evidence against him.
After reading 28:
*Supposedly Job is still talking. However, this next passage has a very different feel to it. It's like something you might find in the book of Proverbs or Ecclesiastes, and seems to haven nothing to do with Job's current situation. The theme starts with the hidden qualities of wisdom, using the extended metaphor of a mine. We are told of the toil of men who tunnel through rock and lay bare the roots of mountains to uncover the hidden treasures that cannot be seen from above. Silver, gold, copper, iron, and sapphires are brought to light, but where can wisdom be found?
*The next theme is the worth of wisdom and man's inability to understand its value because it is so rare. It can't be found in the land or the sea. Its price cannot be compared to gold, silver, onyx, sapphires, crystal, coral, jasper, rubies, and topaz.
* Verse 21 repeats verse 12 like a refrain, giving this passage a more poetic quality. Verse 22 repeats a sentiment from verse 7. They introduce another stanza. Now we are told even "Destruction (abaddon) and Death" have only heard rumors of wisdom. God, however, is the only one who knows where to find it, because he sees everything. He looked at wisdom and tested it, then he said, "the fear of The lord (Adonai) is wisdom. To shun evil is understanding."
*This is one of the times lord is translated from the word Adonai, not Yahweh. Now I am officially confused. Apparently When Yahweh is translated LORD it is in all capital letters, when Adonai is translated Lord, just the first letter is capitalized. Adonai is not an official name of God it is a regal title that is applied to him. It is another plural used as a singular and originally meant "my lords." You can read more about it and the other supposed names of God here. I learned something new today.
*The unusual way this passage seems to digress from the surrounding text, leads me to wonder if it was a later insertion. I personally think it has beautiful imagery and is a nice change from all the moaning and whining, even if it isn't true. Wisdom comes from acquiring a wide base of knowledge and experience and applying it to become your best self and a teacher of others.
*Job continues talking to his friends. He continues to deny any wrong doing and insists he has a clear conscience. Then he goes on a rant about the fate of his enemies, may it be like the fate of the wicked. Verses 13-23 are a poetic description of the horrid things that will happen to the wicked and their descendents. It makes no sense to me, because in previous chapters Job has made a point that bad things don't always happen to the wicked. In fact they often prosper. Now he seems to be saying the same kinds of things his friends have said, the things they used as evidence against him.
After reading 28:
*Supposedly Job is still talking. However, this next passage has a very different feel to it. It's like something you might find in the book of Proverbs or Ecclesiastes, and seems to haven nothing to do with Job's current situation. The theme starts with the hidden qualities of wisdom, using the extended metaphor of a mine. We are told of the toil of men who tunnel through rock and lay bare the roots of mountains to uncover the hidden treasures that cannot be seen from above. Silver, gold, copper, iron, and sapphires are brought to light, but where can wisdom be found?
*The next theme is the worth of wisdom and man's inability to understand its value because it is so rare. It can't be found in the land or the sea. Its price cannot be compared to gold, silver, onyx, sapphires, crystal, coral, jasper, rubies, and topaz.
* Verse 21 repeats verse 12 like a refrain, giving this passage a more poetic quality. Verse 22 repeats a sentiment from verse 7. They introduce another stanza. Now we are told even "Destruction (abaddon) and Death" have only heard rumors of wisdom. God, however, is the only one who knows where to find it, because he sees everything. He looked at wisdom and tested it, then he said, "the fear of The lord (Adonai) is wisdom. To shun evil is understanding."
*This is one of the times lord is translated from the word Adonai, not Yahweh. Now I am officially confused. Apparently When Yahweh is translated LORD it is in all capital letters, when Adonai is translated Lord, just the first letter is capitalized. Adonai is not an official name of God it is a regal title that is applied to him. It is another plural used as a singular and originally meant "my lords." You can read more about it and the other supposed names of God here. I learned something new today.
*The unusual way this passage seems to digress from the surrounding text, leads me to wonder if it was a later insertion. I personally think it has beautiful imagery and is a nice change from all the moaning and whining, even if it isn't true. Wisdom comes from acquiring a wide base of knowledge and experience and applying it to become your best self and a teacher of others.
Saturday, September 17, 2016
Job 26
After reading chapter 26:
*Job replies to Bildad. The first few verses are very sarcastic. Job declares Bildad to be so helpful and wise (not). The dead are still dead.
*Starting in verse 6, things get interesting. First we see "death is naked before God." Death here is the hebrew sheol. Then we see "destruction lies uncovered." Destruction here is abaddon. This is the first time we have encountered Abaddon. Sheol and Abaddon are somehow connected. According to references, Abaddon is a deep pit in or near sheol, or the name of the angel in charge of the pit of destruction. What is Abaddon's purpose? Who knows. What is worse than being dead, being really, really dead? Is this passage figurative or literal? Does Abaddon actually exist?
*The passage goes on to tell how God is responsible for the sky, the suspension of the earth over nothing, the clouds, the horizon, earthquakes, tsunamis, and fair weather. It is the epitome of the "look at the trees" argument, but more poetic. I've heard these verses used as proof that religion and science are compatible because these things are true: the earth does appear to be suspended over nothing, water is stored in clouds. It's science!
*There is a huge difference between what a scientist would say about these natural phenomena and what Job says. He says,"God does it." He says God "spreads" the sky. God "suspends" the earth. He "wraps up" water in clouds. He "covers" the face of the moon by "spreading" clouds over it. He "marks out" the horizon. He "churns up" the sea. His rebuke shakes the earth. (How many times have we heard that earthquakes are punishment from God?) His breath makes the skies fair. This is not science. It is poetry. Science never takes invisible, unquantifiable beings into account when making statements about how nature works.
*Lets look at verse 12:
NIV- he churned up the sea
KJV- he divideth the sea
NAS-he quieted the sea
JPS- he stilled the sea
Those are all quite different, aren't they? Not to mention that the sea in this verse is yam, which happens to be the name of the canaanite sea God. In this same verse god also cuts Rahab to pieces. Apparently this word Rahab is a Jewish mythological sea monster that also symbolically represents Egypt. So it would make sense if the author was referring to the exodus, parting the sea and killing Egyptians. Verse 13 says god's hand pierced the gliding serpent. Is this serpent referring to Rahab the sea monster?
*Last, Bildad is told these things are just whispers and fringes of god's works. Who can understand the full extent of his power?
*Job replies to Bildad. The first few verses are very sarcastic. Job declares Bildad to be so helpful and wise (not). The dead are still dead.
*Starting in verse 6, things get interesting. First we see "death is naked before God." Death here is the hebrew sheol. Then we see "destruction lies uncovered." Destruction here is abaddon. This is the first time we have encountered Abaddon. Sheol and Abaddon are somehow connected. According to references, Abaddon is a deep pit in or near sheol, or the name of the angel in charge of the pit of destruction. What is Abaddon's purpose? Who knows. What is worse than being dead, being really, really dead? Is this passage figurative or literal? Does Abaddon actually exist?
*The passage goes on to tell how God is responsible for the sky, the suspension of the earth over nothing, the clouds, the horizon, earthquakes, tsunamis, and fair weather. It is the epitome of the "look at the trees" argument, but more poetic. I've heard these verses used as proof that religion and science are compatible because these things are true: the earth does appear to be suspended over nothing, water is stored in clouds. It's science!
*There is a huge difference between what a scientist would say about these natural phenomena and what Job says. He says,"God does it." He says God "spreads" the sky. God "suspends" the earth. He "wraps up" water in clouds. He "covers" the face of the moon by "spreading" clouds over it. He "marks out" the horizon. He "churns up" the sea. His rebuke shakes the earth. (How many times have we heard that earthquakes are punishment from God?) His breath makes the skies fair. This is not science. It is poetry. Science never takes invisible, unquantifiable beings into account when making statements about how nature works.
*Lets look at verse 12:
NIV- he churned up the sea
KJV- he divideth the sea
NAS-he quieted the sea
JPS- he stilled the sea
Those are all quite different, aren't they? Not to mention that the sea in this verse is yam, which happens to be the name of the canaanite sea God. In this same verse god also cuts Rahab to pieces. Apparently this word Rahab is a Jewish mythological sea monster that also symbolically represents Egypt. So it would make sense if the author was referring to the exodus, parting the sea and killing Egyptians. Verse 13 says god's hand pierced the gliding serpent. Is this serpent referring to Rahab the sea monster?
*Last, Bildad is told these things are just whispers and fringes of god's works. Who can understand the full extent of his power?
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