Jesus Burning part 5, wrap up.

We continue on in Luke. In chapter 16, we come to the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus was a poor beggar who was never helped by the rich man. They both died. The rich man went to hell hades) and was in torment. Lazarus went to a place far way, but not so far that the rich man couldn't see him with "Father Abraham." (You remember Abraham, the lying, deadbeat father of Ishmael who was willing to kill his son Isaac.) The rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus with water to cool his tongue because he was in agony in the fire. This looks to me like the only time in the bible that hades, not gehenna, is said to be the fiery tormenting place. Plus, they went there right after death, which leaves out the gathering of souls and final judgement.

Abraham tells the rich man that he just got what he deserved, a kind of divine karma. Plus, Lazarus couldn't deliver water if he wanted to. An uncrossable chasm has been fixed between the two realms. However, they seem to be able to see each other. Lovely.

In chapter 19, we have a version of the parable of the talents that we saw in Matthew 25. This time the money the master (god figure) doled out is in minas.  A talent was 60 minas. The master/king in this story is not quite as wealthy as the last one. Anyway, again, one servant did not invest the money he was given and increase it for the master. The money was taken away from that servant and given to a servant who had made interest on his minas. The king then says, "To everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. But enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." Remember that this king is supposed to be a representation of god. This parable is supposed to represent divine judgement.

There are a few more vague references to judgement in the book of Luke, but nothing obvious. Next we look at John. I could find no obvious references to a final judgement/condemnation, until I reached chapter 12. Verse 48 says,"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him in the last day." There are no specifics about how what condemnation entails.

The next reference is in chapter 15. There Jesus calls himself the true vine. Unproductive branches, those that don't remain in the vine, are pruned off and cast into the fire and burned, an obvious reference to divine punishment. Believe it or not, that seems to be it. We are at the end of our study of damnation and hell. There may be a few more scattered references, but I'm tired of this topic.

What have we learned? It appears that the modern generic version of the christian hell is a muddled mash up of all the elements we have found scattered throughout the bible. If I were to try to create a sythesis with as few internal contradictions as possible, I would say that after death, everyone goes to hades/sheol, which is underground.  In hades, there may be separate places for good people and bad people separated by a chasm. The bad people are those who did not help the poor and needy, those who did not follow jesus's teachings, and those who were unproductive for god. They may or may not be thrown into a pit (which may be tartarus/abaddon) or a fire in hades. The good people may or may not get to be with Abraham. Some stories seem to imply that the dead are still possessors of physical bodies that feel pain or pleasure. Some people get to be resurrected early. They have priveledges. At the last judgement, everyone still in hades comes out to get their eternal reward or punishment. Everyone is judged according to what they have done. The sinners, unbelievers, Satan, and hades,  are all thrown into a lake of fire (of unknown location), the second death, which may or may not be Gehenna. They may or may not be tortured forever. If the parables acurately represent god, he will have no qualms at meting out the consequences of his divine wrath. Jesus and the saved may or may not watch the punishment of the damned. Is this what you believe? Why?

Jesus Burning part 3

We continue with Jesus's words that reference a severe afterlife punishment.

In Matthew 25, we come to the parable of the "talents." A talent was a coin, not a special ability an individual has. In this parable, a master (symbolic of god)  left his money in the care of his servants while he went out of town. Everyone invested the money and made more, except for one servant who was afraid of losing money and being punished for it. When the master got back, he called that servant wicked and said, "Take the talent from him and give it to the one that has ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have , even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Wow. Sounds a bit like prosperity gospel, doesn't it. Can't you see some preacher guilting someone into "investing in the work of the lord" or facing damnation?  Then, what will happen to the money will be the lining of the preachers pockets. This parable is told slightly differently in Luke 19, with a king instead of a master. It end with the king (symbolic of god) saying "those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them....bring them here and kill them in front of me."

In the same chapter, we see the parable of the sheep and the goats. At the end times a king (representing Jesus/god) separates people into sheep on the right and goats on the left. The sheep were generous and benevolent to the poor, the sick, and imprisoned. The goats were not. The goats were told "depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Also "they will go away to eternal punishment." This sounds suspiciously like Matthew has read Revelation. Plus, don't many atheists, and people of other beliefs, practice generosity and compassion? Does that mean they would get to heaven before christians who don't practice those things? This parable is not told elsewhere.

That finishes Matthew, the author of weeping and gnashing of  teeth. For some reason, I used to think it was weeping and "wailing" and gnashing of teeth.  Now let's look at passages in Mark that we have not covered before.

Mark 3:29 says " Whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will never be forgiven, he is guilty of an eternal sin." I think the holy spirit is a fraud.

Other than telling the disciples to cut off body parts to keep from going to hell (gehenna), the only remaining verse of condemnation is 16:16, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." There is no outer darkness, and no weeping and gnashing of teeth mentioned in the whole book.

Next time we look at Luke.

Jesus Burning part 1

In this segment, we will take a look at words of judgement and punishment spoken by Jesus, specifically referencing and/or implying punishment by death, negative judgement, a tortured afterlife, and/or burning. This should give us an idea of how loving and gracious Jesus was. I will ignore passages that merely say someone won't go to heaven. We are going to examine many  passages we have not previously covered in this series, from the gospels and words in red. We will pass over some that we've already discussed.

The first passage I come to is Matthew 8:10-12. There Jesus is talking about a Roman Centurion. He says "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. I say to you that many will come frim the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside , into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." This sentiment is repeated in Luke 13:28-30. It obviously is a rebuke of the Jews not recognizing Jesus's authority. The word "subject" in this passage is actually "sons" in the Greek. Which brings me to an interesting question. What place did women have in this supposed kingdom of god, Jewish or Christian? The bible was written by men, for men. As far as I can tell, very few of Jesus's doctrinal teachings were directed to women, if any. As far as I can tell, no Old Testament teachings were either, even those that told stories about specific women. If women "defiled"men on earth, would they even be allowed in heaven?

The next passage I come to is Matthew 10:14-15. There Jesus is sending the twelve disciples out to preach. He tells them, "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement than for that town." Luke 9:5 has the same scene but does not conclude with a curse of divine judgement. Remember that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstone. Many modern christians take this passage to be applicable to those who will not listen to their evangelistic efforts.

The passage in Matthew 10 continues on to verse 28, which tells the disciples, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell (gehenna). This passage is not echoed elsewhere. It seems that maybe Luke was less concerned with judgement than Matthew. We shall investigate Luke deeper when we are through with Matthew. In the meantime, notice that the One who destroys body and soul in hell is capitalized. That means the people who translated and edited this version believe it is referring to god. God destroys bodies and souls in gehenna. This is an active statement about god. Many christians like to say that their god doesn't send people to hell, people send themselves. Baloney. Also, if the body and the soul is destroyed, what is left? Is that the end? I don't see any indication of an eternal torment.

In Matthew 10:20-24, Jesus curses some cities with the Sodom and Gomorrah curse when they wouldn't repent after he performed miracles.

In Matthew 12:36-37, Jesus says, "But I tell you that men (mankind) will have to give an account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken (whew! That will take a long time.) For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Well. I don't imagine there are many, if any, people who haven't said something regrettable at some time. Also, this certainly flies in the face of a grace based, as opposed to works based, salvation. Some could say that he was talking to Jews, so it doesn't refer to christians. In that case, anything he said exclusively to Jews would not apply to christians. That would cut out a large chunk of Jesus's teachings.

To be continued.

Lakes of fire and burning sulfur or brimstone

Let's look at some of the terms associated with the wrath of god and punishment after death. First the lake of fire, aka the second death.  This phenomenon is found exclusively in Revelation chapters 19, 20, and 21. The rest of the authors of the bible appear to be unaware of its existence. Wikipedia suggests that the lake of fire in Revelation is directly related to the fire of gehenna mentioned by Jesus. However, gehenna is not mentioned in Revelation and it does not have any history of being referred to as a lake.

Fire is mentioned as an instrument of god's wrath so many times in the Old Testament that I don't have the time and inclination  to go over every instance. It is often paired with sulfur, which is called brimstone in the KJV. Brimstone or sulfur appears seven times in the Old Testament. 1. In Gen 19:24 it rains down on Sodom and Gomorrah. 2. Deut. 29:23 refers again to Sodom and gomorrah. 3. Job 18:15 talks of fire and sulfur at the home of a wicked man. 4. Psalm 11:6 says "on the wicked he (god) will rain fiery coals and burning sulfur. 5. Isaiah 30:33 says a place called Topheth has been prepared for the king with a large pile of firewood, ready to be set aflame by the breath of the lord, which is like a torrent of brimstone.

Pause there. Apparently Tophet is associated with the valley of Hinnom or Gehenna. I did not know that. Besides the mention in Isaiah, Jeremiah also refers to it a couple of times, in chapters 7 and 19, and says it is a place of foreign gods, or Baal, where innocent children were burned as sacrifices. 2nd Kings 23:10 says it was where children were sacrificed to Moloch.

Back to brimstone in the OT: 6. Isaiah 34:9 speaks of a day of god's vengeance when Edom's streams will be turned into pitch and the dust into burning sulfur. The fire will not be quenched night and day, its smoke will rise forever. This is in the midst of a quite bloody diatribe against all "the nations." 7. Ezekiel 38:22 says god will rain hail, and burning sulfur on the armies of Gog and many other nations. Apparently Gog isn't actually a real place or group of people. It may be a metaphor for enemies of god. The rain of sulfur must be metaphorical too. You can't rain real sulfur on a metaphor.

In the New Testament, the only sulfur/ brimstone not in Revelation is in Luke 17:29. Which is just referring to Sodom and Gomorrah.

A sulfur passage in Revelation we did not cover yet is found in chapter 14. There we find the lamb, presumably jesus, standing on mount zion with 144,000 people who had his name and god's on their foreheads. Then there is a kind of heavenly musical concert which only the 144,000 can hear. These people are special. They are men who have never "defiled" themselves with women, which made them pure. (Good grief!)  I guess saint Peter won't be one of them, since he was married. They had never lied and were blameless. 144,000 perfect men? Excuse me while I laugh. These perfect men were purchased and offered as firstfruits to god and the lamb. Hmm. Sounds like human sacrifice to me. Revelation chapter seven tells us that the 144,000 are twelve thousand from each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Next in chapter 14, an angel flies around the earth proclaiming the hour of judgement has come. A second angel yells that Babylon the great has fallen. A third angel says that anyone who has worshipped "the beast", who is not Satan,  will drink the wine of god's fury and will be tormented with burning sulfur IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS AND THE LAMB! "And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever." There will be no rest for them. Lovely imagery, huh?

Hell part 7

As I promised, we will have a closer look at the first paragraphs of Revelation chapter 20. The unknown John is having a vision and in it he sees an angel come down out of heaven. So heaven must be up. Up where? The angel is holding a key to "the abyss" and a chain. He binds up Satan, who is also called the dragon, that ancient serpent, and the devil. Then Satan is thrown into the abyss and it is locked and sealed over him, to keep him from causing mischief, for one thousand years. The abyss here is not hell, gehenna, hades, or the lake of fire. It is a separate place, possibly in hades. In other scriptures, the abyss appears a kind of holding cell for the most despicable of the dead. So, apparently, the earth will enjoy a millenium without old scratch. After that, he will be set free for a short time.

Next, John sees thrones of judges. Then he sees the souls of those beheaded because of their faithfulness to Jesus. They come to life and get to reign with christ for one thousand years. Two questions: Is this the same thousand years that the devil is locked up? And, do they get their heads back? John says this is the first resurrection. All those who get to be in the first resurrection, do not need to worry about the second death. They will be priests of God and Christ and reign with him for a thousand years. Is this reign in heaven or on earth?

What happens at the end of the thousand years? According to verse five, the rest of the dead are resurrected. That must be the second resurrection. According to verse seven, Satan is released from his prison. He gathers an army and marches against the camp of god's people, the city he loves, maybe Jerusalem? Wait a minute. By the time of the writing of this book, Jerusalem has been destroyed by the Romans. Is this fictional alternative history? In this story, fire comes down from heaven and devours the army of Satan. Then the devil gets thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet have already been thrown. Since we haven't read the previous chapters of Revelation together yet, I have no comment on these other beings. Obviously they are not Satan. However, verse ten ends by saying that in that lake of burning sulfur, they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. As if forever is not enough. This appears to be the same lake of fire that is called the second death later in this  chapter and the next. You know, where the unbelievers like me will be thrown, along with the murderers, idolaters and liars.

There you have it. We see that the ideas about Hell that modern Christianity has popularized don't exactly match up with what the bible says. We have examined gehenna, hades, and the lake of fire. Which one is actually hell? Does hell even exist in the bible? Or is it a conglomeration of all the various uncomfortable and scary metaphorical words about death, the grave, and the "second death" for those who dare to cross God in some way. Where is the reality behind all the talk? I can't find it. Can you?

Hell part 5

Next we will look at the Greek word Hades as translated into hell in the New Testament, in KJV English Bibles. It occurs twice in Matthew, twice in Luke, three times in Acts, and four times in Revelation. Even though Hades and Gehenna are both translated into hell, they are not the same place. In fact, Hades started out as the Greek god of the underworld, the place all people go when they die. When the ancients translated the Hebrew bible (What is now called the Old Testament) into The Greek bible called the Septuagint, they translated the Hebrew word Sheol into the Greek word Hades. Interestingly, the NIV retains the Greek word Hades and also uses "realm of the dead." It does not change the word to hell like it does Gehenna.  Other versions change the word to death or the grave instead. Read about the Christian views of Hades here. (Link)

As you can see from the above link, the different versions of christianity hold many differing beliefs about hell or hades. I can tell you that the church of christ denomination which I have attended for over forty years, teaches very little about hell. It has no sophisticated theology or doctrine of hell or hades. Basically, people are taught that if you do not believe the gospel and get baptized (essential) you go to hell, what they view as eternal damnation/separation from god, when you die. No ifs ands or buts. The beliefs about hell of most people in the pews is very simplistic.

Lets look at the verses with the Greek hades translated into the English hell in the KJV:
*Matt 11:23- here the city of Capernaum is being told it will go to hell (hades in the NIV)because it didn't repent after Jesus performed miracles there.
*Matt 16:18- this is the famous passage where Jesus tells Peter "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." (NIV-gates of hades will not overcome it.)
*Luke 10:15-This passage repeats the sentiment in Matthew 11:23 that Capernaum will go to hell.
*Luke 16:19-29 contains the parable of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar. In it a poor man dies and finds comfort "in the bosom of Abraham." A rich man, who apparently never helped the poor man, dies and finds himself in hell being tormented and burnt by flames. The rich man asks Abraham to send Lazarus to give him water to cool his tongue, Abraham says the gulf between the two places is too great. The rich man asks Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers to warn them of hell. Abraham says they already have the law and the prophets. If they don't believe them, they won't believe someone back from the dead. Hell here is hades in the NIV. Also, let us remember this is a parable not a story about a supposed actual event.
*Acts 2:25-36 contains part of Peter's sermon to a crowd, on the day of Pentecost, after Jesus was taken up into heaven. In it Peter quotes Psalm 16:10- "For thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt though suffer thine holy one to see corruption." Peter claims that since David died and was buried he can't have been talking about himself, so he must have been prophesying about Jesus. Jesus supposedly did not remain in the land of the dead and his body did not rot. The NIV calls this hell Hades in Acts and Sheol in Psalms. I think it is also important to note that the word "holy" in both Acts and Psalms does not mean divine. It means righteous or pious.

In the next post, we will look at hell/hades in the book of Revelation.

Hell part 4

Now that we have covered hell in the Old Testament, we will look at the New Testament. Strong's concordance has 9 instances of the word Hell occurring in the book of Matthew. All but two of them are from the Greek word Gehenna which refers to a currently unknown valley outside Jerusalm where children were supposedly sacrificed to gods by fire. It may also have been a burning trash dump. The exact location appears to be a modern mystery, but the name lives on as a kind of metaphor for eternal destruction or punishment after death. Gehenna is in Jewish literature, as well as in the Christian Bible. Gehenna as hell also occurs three times in Mark, once in Luke, and once in James.

Lets look at what the New Testament KJV and NIV say about gehenna/hell in these verses:

*Matt 5:22-  Both versions say that anyone who calls his brother a fool will be in danger of the fires of hell.
*Matt 5:29-30 Both versions say it is better to lose your eye or your right hand (after cutting it off to keep from sinning) than to have your whole body cast into hell.
*Matt 10:28-Tells us to fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell.
*Matt 18:9-Repeats the sentiment of Matthew 5 and tells us again that it would be better to lose body parts (eyes) rather than sin and get our whole body thrown into the fire of hell.
*Matt 23:15-Asks the scribes and pharisees if they can escape the damnation (divine judgement or sentence) of hell.
*Mark 9:43-47 Again, it's better to have body parts cut off (hands, feet, and eyes) than to be cast into hell with the fire that never goes out (NIV) or that can never be quenched (KJV). Some versions include multiple iterations of "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched." This is a phrase from Isaiah 66:24. That not all versions repeat the saying is a sign that it is not repeated in the oldest manuscripts. Worm here means a gnawing worm that preys upon dead bodies. 

Here is the whole passage from Isaiah 66:22-24, which is the very end of the book of Isaiah and is in the context of what appears to be an end times prophesy to the Israelites. "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the lord, "so will your name and descendants endure. From one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the lord. "And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to mankind."

Remember, this was written to Israelites, not Christians. They are told their descendants will be able to look at the dead bodies of Yahweh's enemies being burnt and eaten by worms forever. This the passage that Mark is referring to when he speaks of  Hell, though Isaiah does not name it hell/gehenna. So, is this passage literal or metaphorical? If it is metaphorical, what is the reality behind the metaphor? Notice that people are not suffering eternal torment, their dead bodies are just being subject to eternal grossness which I assume gives some kind of satisfaction to the people who get to live on the new earth because they didn't rebel against Yahweh.

More verses:

*Luke 12:5-Says to fear the one who has the power (KJV) or authority (NIV) to cast or throw you into hell.
*James 3:6- "The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one's life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell." 

There you have it. Gehenna/hell has a fire that can not be extinguished, dead bodies of those who rebel against god, immortal worms eating the dead bodies. The dead bodies were cast into hell by someone with power and authority and hell destroys both body and soul and tongues. However, gehenna is not the only hell in the New Testament.

More to come.