2 Thessalonians claims to be a letter from Paul, Silas, and Timothy to the church in Thessaloniki. Scholars are divided on the question of authenticity. The date of writing is unknown with the earliest extrabiblical attestation around the turn of the first century. The letter does not claim to be the word of god or divinely inspired. There does not seem to be much point to this letter but to affirm the Thessalonians faith and encourage them to keep on obeying Paul's instructions, in spite of unspecified trials, persecutions, and suffering.
There is absolutely no mention of Old Testament people, events, places, or quotes in this letter. There is no mention of New Testament people, places, or events except Paul, Silas, Timothy, the Thessalonians, and Jesus. There is no mention of Jesus's birth, baptism, teachings, miracles, trial, crucifixion, death on the cross, burial, or resurrection.
One day "The lord Jesus (will be) revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know god and who do not obey the gospel of our lord Jesus." We are not told specifically what that gospel is. There is a rumor going around that Jesus already came. That's a lie. He won't come "until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed." The man of lawlessness "will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called god or is worshipped, so that he sets himself up in gods temple, proclaiming himself to be god." When the lawless one is revealed "Jesus will overthrow (him) with the breath of his mouth." Satan will be around at that time tricking those who are deluded into believing lies about counterfeit miracles signs and wonders. The man of lawlessness is not mentioned anywhere else in the NT.
The Thessalonians are to stand firm in Paul's teachings and commands. (Not god's or Jesus's) Paul prays that they will be delivered from wicked and evil men, because not everyone has faith. The Thessalonians are not to be idle, but work for their daily bread, like Paul did when he was there. "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." Anyone who ignores Paul's rule is to be lovingly shunned, so he will feel ashamed.
The letter ends with supposed Paul writing, "I Paul write this greeting in my own hand, which is the distinguishing mark in all my letters. This is how I write." This makes this letter suspect because it is much more explanatory than is common, and seems to be purposefully trying to authenticate the writing.
A deconverted christian's commentary on a plain reading of the Bible and how it contrasts with the reality of history, science, and every day life.
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Showing posts with label the man of lawlessness. Show all posts
Showing posts with label the man of lawlessness. Show all posts
Saturday, August 10, 2019
Thursday, August 8, 2019
2 Thessalonians part three
We are in chapter two looking at the passages that speak of the "man of lawlessness" who must come before the day of the lord. What I find interesting is that Jesus himself, as depicted in the gospels, was very similar to this man of lawlessness. Was he doomed to destruction? Yes. Did he oppose and exalt himself over everything that was called god and worshipped. Yes. Did he set himself up in god's temple? Not in reality, but he is said to be in god's heavenly temple. Did he proclaim to be god? Kind of, yes, depending which bible authors you read.
The author asks the Thessalonians to remember the stuff he told them about the man of lawlessness, when he was with them. However, he is not mentioned at all in the first letter to the Thessalonians. The man of lawlessness is currently being held back (by whom?) so that "he may be revealed at the proper time." There is a "secret power of lawlessness already at work." Someone is holding it back. Who? Whoever it is will eventually be taken out of the way. That sounds ominous. After that "the lawless one will be revealed." When? Hasn't happened yet.
The lawless one will be overthrown and the splendor of his coming destroyed by the breath of Jesus's mouth. Too funny. The jokes could write themselves. "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders." Still sounds like the Jesus of the gospels. This lawless guy will deceive those who are perishing because they refuse to love the truth and be saved. God sends the perishing people a powerful delusion they will believe the lie. Nice god. What exactly is "the lie" that they are believing ? The proclamation by this guy that he is god? Oops. Wasn't that Jesus's lie also? Anyway, everyone who hasn't believed "the truth" as defined by the author will be condemned.
The author will always be thankful for the Thessalonians, because god chose them "to be saved through the sanctifying work of the spirit, and through belief in the truth." I'm skeptical about how much sanctifying work a spirit can do and how much of anything a spirit can do. The Thessalonians are said to have been called so they can share in the glory of the lord Jesus. Who called? Did anyone actually hear anyone calling? Probably not. In christianity a calling is usually determined by merely having a strong feeling about something. The spirit must be at work in such cases. That's christian logic.
The Thessalonians are urged to stand firm in their faith and hold on to the teachings the authors passed on, by word of mouth or letter. (If they didn't, it would make the authors look bad.) this letter doesn't actually seemed to have accomplished anything, as far as I can tell. The central teaching is about the man of lawlessness coming before the christians get to meet Jesus in glory. This was not even hinted about in the first letter, where it seemed Jesus was expected within a short time frame.
Till next time.
The author asks the Thessalonians to remember the stuff he told them about the man of lawlessness, when he was with them. However, he is not mentioned at all in the first letter to the Thessalonians. The man of lawlessness is currently being held back (by whom?) so that "he may be revealed at the proper time." There is a "secret power of lawlessness already at work." Someone is holding it back. Who? Whoever it is will eventually be taken out of the way. That sounds ominous. After that "the lawless one will be revealed." When? Hasn't happened yet.
The lawless one will be overthrown and the splendor of his coming destroyed by the breath of Jesus's mouth. Too funny. The jokes could write themselves. "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders." Still sounds like the Jesus of the gospels. This lawless guy will deceive those who are perishing because they refuse to love the truth and be saved. God sends the perishing people a powerful delusion they will believe the lie. Nice god. What exactly is "the lie" that they are believing ? The proclamation by this guy that he is god? Oops. Wasn't that Jesus's lie also? Anyway, everyone who hasn't believed "the truth" as defined by the author will be condemned.
The author will always be thankful for the Thessalonians, because god chose them "to be saved through the sanctifying work of the spirit, and through belief in the truth." I'm skeptical about how much sanctifying work a spirit can do and how much of anything a spirit can do. The Thessalonians are said to have been called so they can share in the glory of the lord Jesus. Who called? Did anyone actually hear anyone calling? Probably not. In christianity a calling is usually determined by merely having a strong feeling about something. The spirit must be at work in such cases. That's christian logic.
The Thessalonians are urged to stand firm in their faith and hold on to the teachings the authors passed on, by word of mouth or letter. (If they didn't, it would make the authors look bad.) this letter doesn't actually seemed to have accomplished anything, as far as I can tell. The central teaching is about the man of lawlessness coming before the christians get to meet Jesus in glory. This was not even hinted about in the first letter, where it seemed Jesus was expected within a short time frame.
Till next time.
Sunday, August 4, 2019
2 Thessalonians part two
We are at chapter two. Things get a little wierd now. The author tells the Thessalonians not to pay any attention to prophecies, reports, or letters, saying "The day of the lord has already come." In other words, people might try to get them to believe Jesus came and they missed it. Did this actually happen? Were people saying those kinds of things? Isn't that kind of what the gospels were saying? The christ already came and he was not recognized for who he was. After all Paul is not using the word return. In fact, I just looked up the words "return" and "returned" in Strong's concordance. It doesn't occur in reference to Jesus in any of the New Testament epistles.
" The New Testament talks of Jesus, the lord, or the christ, coming out of heaven at the end of times. Nowhere in any of the non gospel books can I find the words return or returning when referring to "the day of the lord." There is also no phrase "second coming" referring to Jesus, as is often used in Christianity. It seems strange to me. If he was coming back to the earth he left, wouldn't the language reflect that?
In the gospel of Matthew, Jesus says the Son of Man is going to come In his kingdom, but he doesn't say that is himself. He also says that will happen before some of the people he is talking to die.
The book of John, the latest gospel, written later than most of the rest of the NT, is the only one that specifically has Jesus saying he will come back, to the apostles. That is in chapter 14, where he also says, "Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.....On that day you will realize I am in my father and you are in me, and I am in you....He who loves me will be loved by my father, and I too will love him and show myself to him...If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. my father will love him and come to him and make our home with him...the holy spirit, whom the father will send in my name will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said."
This doesn't sound anything like a literal return to me. By the time this was written, the christian community had to have given up hope in any kind of "day of the lord" coming soon and created an alternate scenario of Jesus privately revealing himself to believers." (I also posted the portion in quotes in the Roll to Disbelieve comments.)
Anyway, the Thessalonians are told the lord hasn't come yet. "That day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. (Who is that man?) He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called god or worshipped, so that he sets himself up in god's temple, proclaiming himself to be god." The emperor Caligula tried to do exactly that, about the year 40CE, according to Philo of Alexandria. Read what Philo wrote here: (XLIII).
Caligula's statue appears to have never made it into the temple, and Caligula was killed. This letter to the Thessalonians was written at least a decade after Caligula died. If it is referring to him, it is a retroactive prophecy. If this author is not actually Paul, and he wrote much later, he appears to have his timeline messed up. I can't find any other indication that a statue of a "god" was ever set up in the Jewish temple. That doesn't mean there wasn't plans by some other emperor to do that. However, the temple is gone. If this man of lawlessness was supposed to set himself up as a god in the temple, it would have happened almost two thousand years ago. What does could this possibly have to do with us today?
" The New Testament talks of Jesus, the lord, or the christ, coming out of heaven at the end of times. Nowhere in any of the non gospel books can I find the words return or returning when referring to "the day of the lord." There is also no phrase "second coming" referring to Jesus, as is often used in Christianity. It seems strange to me. If he was coming back to the earth he left, wouldn't the language reflect that?
In the gospel of Matthew, Jesus says the Son of Man is going to come In his kingdom, but he doesn't say that is himself. He also says that will happen before some of the people he is talking to die.
The book of John, the latest gospel, written later than most of the rest of the NT, is the only one that specifically has Jesus saying he will come back, to the apostles. That is in chapter 14, where he also says, "Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.....On that day you will realize I am in my father and you are in me, and I am in you....He who loves me will be loved by my father, and I too will love him and show myself to him...If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. my father will love him and come to him and make our home with him...the holy spirit, whom the father will send in my name will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said."
This doesn't sound anything like a literal return to me. By the time this was written, the christian community had to have given up hope in any kind of "day of the lord" coming soon and created an alternate scenario of Jesus privately revealing himself to believers." (I also posted the portion in quotes in the Roll to Disbelieve comments.)
Anyway, the Thessalonians are told the lord hasn't come yet. "That day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. (Who is that man?) He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called god or worshipped, so that he sets himself up in god's temple, proclaiming himself to be god." The emperor Caligula tried to do exactly that, about the year 40CE, according to Philo of Alexandria. Read what Philo wrote here: (XLIII).
Caligula's statue appears to have never made it into the temple, and Caligula was killed. This letter to the Thessalonians was written at least a decade after Caligula died. If it is referring to him, it is a retroactive prophecy. If this author is not actually Paul, and he wrote much later, he appears to have his timeline messed up. I can't find any other indication that a statue of a "god" was ever set up in the Jewish temple. That doesn't mean there wasn't plans by some other emperor to do that. However, the temple is gone. If this man of lawlessness was supposed to set himself up as a god in the temple, it would have happened almost two thousand years ago. What does could this possibly have to do with us today?
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