Let us begin reading Mark. Right away I notice there is no virgin birth story. There is no mother Mary and father Joseph. No divine conception of Jesus by the holy spirit. So, if Mark stood alone, we would have to assume Jesus was conceieved and birthed in the normal human way. The first chapter begins by telling us that the gospel of Jesus Christ began in Isaiah with a prophecy about a messenger who will prepare the way for the lord. And that messenger was John the baptizer. Did Mark not know of the supposed prophecy of a virgin giving birth? Wouldn't that have been a pertinent part of Jesus's back story? If Mark was the first gospel writer, did Matthew and Luke each make up their Jesus origin stories? Both of their stories are very different after all.
Beginning in verse 4, John the baptist is described as a man dressed in camel hair clothing who preached out in the desert. He was telling the Jews who came to him that they needed to be baptized with a baptism of repentance for the remission of their sins. Basically that means they were given a ceremonial bath to show that they were cleansing themselves from past sins. They may not have actually done anything that we would consider wrong, like theft or murder. "Sins" are committed whenever god's laws are broken. They could have included any number of innocuous things, like cooking on the Sabbath or not tithing properly. Who knows what these people were repenting of.
At that time, the Romans had control over Israel, and many Jews were very concerned about this state of things. Just like today, there would have been religious people blaming the undesirable conditions on a state of moral laxity and religious decay. A call to repent is ubiquitous throughout religious history.
While John was out in the desert baptizing, he told people someone more powerful than him was coming, someone who would baptize the people with the holy spirit instead of water. Hmm, it sounds like John was saying holy spirit baptism is superior to water baptism. That's not what I was taught.
Then along comes Jesus from Nazareth. He was baptized by John in the Jordan river. When he came up out of the water, "he saw heaven being torn open and the spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased." Look at that. The text does not say that John knew who Jesus was when he came to be baptized. It also does not say anyone else but Jesus himself was witness to this miraculous voice. Oh my nonexistent god! Jesus here is having an experience like Paul claims to have had on the road to Damascus. There are no other witnesses claimed for this event. Wouldn't it have been important for Mark to include witnesses, if there were any?
Note that there is no mention of Bethlehem, wise men following stars, Herod killing children, censuses, or genealogical descent from David. In fact, so far, this story is not anchored in time.
My previous series on the nativity begins here.(link)
More to come.
Showing posts with label Nativity. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Nativity. Show all posts
Tuesday, December 18, 2018
Tuesday, December 29, 2015
Nativity wrap up
First, we have no idea who wrote these stories and where they got their information. No other bible authors tell a story of Jesus's birth, not even Paul, who was the most prolific writer before the gospel accounts came along. There is no historical corroboration, except for the existence of Herod and Quirinius with his census, but they were ten years apart. We can see that Matthew and Luke have two very different stories with different casts of characters. In Matthew, Mary has a very minor role, merely birthing Jesus. In Luke, she takes a significant part in the story with dialogue. There she becomes "blessed."
Naturally, a virgin conception of a male child appears to be an impossibility to us today. In that time, the microscopic mechanics of reproduction were not known. It was believed that the male "planted the seed" that would become a child. The woman's womb was the fertile, or barren, ground in which the seed grew. God was responsible for making the woman fertile or barren. If she was barren, she was in disgrace. Ultimately, the child belonged to the father, not the mother. Supposedly, the Holy Spirit was Jesus's father.
That a child should be concieved by a male God with a human mother was not a surprising thing in the first century. We can recall our school literature classes where we learned about ancient mythology and abundance of male gods who impregnated beautiful young women and had "special" children. Zeus alone was notorious. Here are some links to peruse:
Son of God
Demigod
List of demigods
Zeus's offspring
To read a fuller critique of Jesus and his life as recorded in the bible, I recommend The Christ by John E. Remsberg, found here.
Naturally, a virgin conception of a male child appears to be an impossibility to us today. In that time, the microscopic mechanics of reproduction were not known. It was believed that the male "planted the seed" that would become a child. The woman's womb was the fertile, or barren, ground in which the seed grew. God was responsible for making the woman fertile or barren. If she was barren, she was in disgrace. Ultimately, the child belonged to the father, not the mother. Supposedly, the Holy Spirit was Jesus's father.
That a child should be concieved by a male God with a human mother was not a surprising thing in the first century. We can recall our school literature classes where we learned about ancient mythology and abundance of male gods who impregnated beautiful young women and had "special" children. Zeus alone was notorious. Here are some links to peruse:
Son of God
Demigod
List of demigods
Zeus's offspring
To read a fuller critique of Jesus and his life as recorded in the bible, I recommend The Christ by John E. Remsberg, found here.
Thursday, December 24, 2015
The Nativity part 6- the miraculous conception
Well. I'm sure we all know how babies get started inside their mother's womb, but just in case, I'll refresh your memory. First there is a human woman of childbearing years who has functioning ovaries which release an egg once a month. Then there must be a human male of appropriate age who has functioning testicles which can release enough sperm to fertilize an ocean of eggs, should they become available. Then the male and female must have sexual relations so that at least one sperm can make its way to the one egg that has been released from the woman's ovary and is only available to be fertilized during a short window of time, perhaps a few days. Then the woman becomes pregnant.
The obvious question is "How was Jesus concieved?" Matthew only tells us Mary was found with child by the Holy Spirit. Luke, however, tells us that the Holy Spirit will "overshadow" Mary. What does that mean? Did the Holy Spirit have sex with her? We are told in both books that Mary was a virgin when she concieved Jesus, and that she had not had sex with a man. I guess the Holy Spirit doesn't count.
Seriously, there are only three options here: 1. One of Mary's eggs was caused to spontaneously reproduce without sperm from the Holy Spirit. 2. The Holy Spirit had sperm. 3. The elementary cluster of cells that would become Jesus just miraculously poofed into existence, with the help of the Holy Spirit, but without Mary's egg. Let's look at each option.
1. If one of Mary's eggs spontaneously reproduced without any human sperm, Jesus would have been Mary's clone and a female. Most males have a Y chromosome which they get from their sperm donor father. It seems that this is out of the question.
2. If the Holy Spirit had sperm, how was it delivered? Does the Holy Spirit have other male apparatus? Sperm have genetic information provided by the human parent. The Holy Spirit is not human, does he have genes? Did the Holy Spirit provide Jesus's Y chromosome? (Assuming Jesus was a typical male.) Would Jesus have been fully human if part of his DNA came from the Holy Spirit who is not human? What genes for eye color, hair color, and height did the Holy Spirit contribute to Jesus? This option is confusing and disturbing on many levels.
3. If the cells that would become Jesus just miraculously appeared in Mary's womb, Jesus would not have been her child at all. She would just have been a surrogate mother. Since there would have been no human egg or sperm, Jesus would not have been a human related to anyone on earth, but some kind of brand new person with unique genetics. Or maybe he wasn't human and didn't need all that microscopic stuff inside to determine his physical makeup. Maybe he was a kind of illusion performed by God.
Oh, wait! He was God. The God of the universe put himself inside a woman's womb for nine months, then acted like a regular human for another thirty years or so, and just let the rest of the world carry on by itself. Maybe that's why there were so many demons around by the time Jesus was grown. When the cat's away, the mice will play.
The obvious question is "How was Jesus concieved?" Matthew only tells us Mary was found with child by the Holy Spirit. Luke, however, tells us that the Holy Spirit will "overshadow" Mary. What does that mean? Did the Holy Spirit have sex with her? We are told in both books that Mary was a virgin when she concieved Jesus, and that she had not had sex with a man. I guess the Holy Spirit doesn't count.
Seriously, there are only three options here: 1. One of Mary's eggs was caused to spontaneously reproduce without sperm from the Holy Spirit. 2. The Holy Spirit had sperm. 3. The elementary cluster of cells that would become Jesus just miraculously poofed into existence, with the help of the Holy Spirit, but without Mary's egg. Let's look at each option.
1. If one of Mary's eggs spontaneously reproduced without any human sperm, Jesus would have been Mary's clone and a female. Most males have a Y chromosome which they get from their sperm donor father. It seems that this is out of the question.
2. If the Holy Spirit had sperm, how was it delivered? Does the Holy Spirit have other male apparatus? Sperm have genetic information provided by the human parent. The Holy Spirit is not human, does he have genes? Did the Holy Spirit provide Jesus's Y chromosome? (Assuming Jesus was a typical male.) Would Jesus have been fully human if part of his DNA came from the Holy Spirit who is not human? What genes for eye color, hair color, and height did the Holy Spirit contribute to Jesus? This option is confusing and disturbing on many levels.
3. If the cells that would become Jesus just miraculously appeared in Mary's womb, Jesus would not have been her child at all. She would just have been a surrogate mother. Since there would have been no human egg or sperm, Jesus would not have been a human related to anyone on earth, but some kind of brand new person with unique genetics. Or maybe he wasn't human and didn't need all that microscopic stuff inside to determine his physical makeup. Maybe he was a kind of illusion performed by God.
Oh, wait! He was God. The God of the universe put himself inside a woman's womb for nine months, then acted like a regular human for another thirty years or so, and just let the rest of the world carry on by itself. Maybe that's why there were so many demons around by the time Jesus was grown. When the cat's away, the mice will play.
The Nativity part 5- summary of Luke's story with comments.
Luke:
First we have two very similar stories. The angel Gabriel visits Zachariah; says,"do not be afraid;" tells him he will have a son; tells him what to name his son; tells him his son will be great; Zachariah questions this on physical grounds, the angel gives him a sign- muteness, no one else saw the angel, his wife says Yahewh has done this for her. (Technically, it was her husband.)
Then, the angel Gabriel visits Mary; he says," do not be afraid;" tells her she will have a son, tells her what to name her son, tells her that her son will be great, Mary questions this on physical grounds, the angel gives her a sign- Elizabeth's miraculous pregnancy, no one else saw the angel, Mary declares herself to be the lord's servant. Mary saying she was a servant may have been deliberate. A woman could have both a master and a husband, if she was a slave. The child would belong to the master, no matter who had fathered it. So, we have one very old barren woman, and one very young unwed woman, both pregnant. It must be a miracle, right? Unless someone lied, stretched the truth, or made up the stories.
Next, Mary goes to the hill country of Judea all the way from Nazareth, to visit Elizabeth, at least a several days journey on foot. Alone? Not likely. To put it bluntly, she might not have remained a virgin if she travelled alone. When she gets to Elizabeth's house, Elizabeth's baby leapt in her womb when Mary greeted her. Is it unusual for a six month old fetus to be very active inside his mother? No. Nevertheless, this was seen as a sign that what was predicted was true. Then Mary breaks out in song/poetry, praising God. Mary stays for three months, presumably till the birth of John. Baby John is born and circumcised on the eighth day. Then Zachariah beaks out in song/poetry praising God.
Now, supposedly Mary had returned home to Nazareth and we have what feels like another story, starting in chapter two. It takes place during the census of Quirinius, which was 6 C.E. Joseph had to go to Bethlehem to register for the census because he belonged to the line of David, which the Romans would not have cared about. Plus, the Census takers travelled to where the people were, not the other way around. The story does not say at what point in Mary's pregnancy they were supposed to have travelled, but it would be incredible to think of a woman making an eighty mile trip on foot or the back of a donkey, at nine months pregnant. Only a man would think such a thing was reasonable. Anyway, the baby was born, and placed in a manger,because there was no room in the inn. Some christian scholars think "inn" should say " upper room." I think it doesn't really matter, if the likelihood that it actually happened is slim.
Then we have shepherds in the fields at night which tells us it probably wasn't winter. They saw angels who told them about Jesus and praised God. The shepherds left the sheep that were in their care to go find Jesus who they were told was the christ. After they found the baby, they went back to their sheep. On the eighth day Jesus was circumcised, after the fortieth day he was taken to the temple to be presented as a first born son. Then his parents had encounters with Simeon and Anna, who seemed to have expected him.
In this story we have no Magi, no star, no Massacre of the innocents, and no trip to Egypt.
Edited.
First we have two very similar stories. The angel Gabriel visits Zachariah; says,"do not be afraid;" tells him he will have a son; tells him what to name his son; tells him his son will be great; Zachariah questions this on physical grounds, the angel gives him a sign- muteness, no one else saw the angel, his wife says Yahewh has done this for her. (Technically, it was her husband.)
Then, the angel Gabriel visits Mary; he says," do not be afraid;" tells her she will have a son, tells her what to name her son, tells her that her son will be great, Mary questions this on physical grounds, the angel gives her a sign- Elizabeth's miraculous pregnancy, no one else saw the angel, Mary declares herself to be the lord's servant. Mary saying she was a servant may have been deliberate. A woman could have both a master and a husband, if she was a slave. The child would belong to the master, no matter who had fathered it. So, we have one very old barren woman, and one very young unwed woman, both pregnant. It must be a miracle, right? Unless someone lied, stretched the truth, or made up the stories.
Next, Mary goes to the hill country of Judea all the way from Nazareth, to visit Elizabeth, at least a several days journey on foot. Alone? Not likely. To put it bluntly, she might not have remained a virgin if she travelled alone. When she gets to Elizabeth's house, Elizabeth's baby leapt in her womb when Mary greeted her. Is it unusual for a six month old fetus to be very active inside his mother? No. Nevertheless, this was seen as a sign that what was predicted was true. Then Mary breaks out in song/poetry, praising God. Mary stays for three months, presumably till the birth of John. Baby John is born and circumcised on the eighth day. Then Zachariah beaks out in song/poetry praising God.
Now, supposedly Mary had returned home to Nazareth and we have what feels like another story, starting in chapter two. It takes place during the census of Quirinius, which was 6 C.E. Joseph had to go to Bethlehem to register for the census because he belonged to the line of David, which the Romans would not have cared about. Plus, the Census takers travelled to where the people were, not the other way around. The story does not say at what point in Mary's pregnancy they were supposed to have travelled, but it would be incredible to think of a woman making an eighty mile trip on foot or the back of a donkey, at nine months pregnant. Only a man would think such a thing was reasonable. Anyway, the baby was born, and placed in a manger,because there was no room in the inn. Some christian scholars think "inn" should say " upper room." I think it doesn't really matter, if the likelihood that it actually happened is slim.
Then we have shepherds in the fields at night which tells us it probably wasn't winter. They saw angels who told them about Jesus and praised God. The shepherds left the sheep that were in their care to go find Jesus who they were told was the christ. After they found the baby, they went back to their sheep. On the eighth day Jesus was circumcised, after the fortieth day he was taken to the temple to be presented as a first born son. Then his parents had encounters with Simeon and Anna, who seemed to have expected him.
In this story we have no Magi, no star, no Massacre of the innocents, and no trip to Egypt.
Edited.
Saturday, December 19, 2015
The Nativity part 4- summary of Matthew with comments.
Matthew:
Joseph discovers his fiancée is pregnant with someone else's child and decides to break off the engagement without a fuss. Then he has a dream (he would be the only one who would know the actual content of his dreams. No witnesses.)of an angel telling him the father of the baby is the Holy Spirit and he should marry Mary anyway. The angel supposedly told him to name the baby Jesus. Joseph married Mary, but they didn't sleep together till after the baby was born. (We are told this to assure us the child was not Joseph's, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors. )
Jesus was born in Bethlehem during the reign of Herod. During that time, some magi from the east went to Herod and asked him where they could find the king of the Jews. They saw his star* and wanted to worship him. (These are Zoroastrians, not Yahweh worshippers, yet they are taken seriously by Jews?) Herod was troubled by this question and asked the religious leaders where the christ was supposed to be born. They said Bethlehem. Herod told the magi and asked them to report back if they found him. Luckily, the star was going in that direction, so they followed it to the house where Jesus and his mother were. They worshipped Jesus and gave him gifts of gold incense and myrrh. They went home, instead of reporting back to Herod, because they had been warned in a dream.
Joseph has another dream of an angel, telling him to go to Egypt, because Herod was going to try to find and kill Jesus. Herod gave orders for all the baby boys, in and around Bethlehem to be killed. (There is no historical record of this.) After Herod died, Joseph had another dream telling him to take Mary and Jesus back to Israel. When they got there and heard Herod's son was ruling in Judea, where they had come from, they were afraid. Another dream told him to go live in Nazareth of Galilee. (Those dreams were very helpful.)
What do we not find in this story:
-Zachariah, Elizabeth and the birth of John
-Mary being visited by Gabriel
-Mary visiting Elizabeth
-Mary speaking/ singing
-Mary and Joseph being previous residents of Nazareth
-A census and Quirinius as governor (He replaced Herod's son)
-A manger
-Shepherds with Angels
-The circumcision of Jesus and the presentation of him at at the temple
-Simeon and Anna
-Anything supported by the contemporary history of that time, except place names, Herod, and his son.
*The people of that time made a habit of studying the stars and keeping records of unusual things in the sky. There is no historical record of such a star appearing in the time frame required. Plus, stars are so far away, no one could tell if one was directly over a particular house, and they don't stop, start, and move freely.
Edited.
Joseph discovers his fiancée is pregnant with someone else's child and decides to break off the engagement without a fuss. Then he has a dream (he would be the only one who would know the actual content of his dreams. No witnesses.)of an angel telling him the father of the baby is the Holy Spirit and he should marry Mary anyway. The angel supposedly told him to name the baby Jesus. Joseph married Mary, but they didn't sleep together till after the baby was born. (We are told this to assure us the child was not Joseph's, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors. )
Jesus was born in Bethlehem during the reign of Herod. During that time, some magi from the east went to Herod and asked him where they could find the king of the Jews. They saw his star* and wanted to worship him. (These are Zoroastrians, not Yahweh worshippers, yet they are taken seriously by Jews?) Herod was troubled by this question and asked the religious leaders where the christ was supposed to be born. They said Bethlehem. Herod told the magi and asked them to report back if they found him. Luckily, the star was going in that direction, so they followed it to the house where Jesus and his mother were. They worshipped Jesus and gave him gifts of gold incense and myrrh. They went home, instead of reporting back to Herod, because they had been warned in a dream.
Joseph has another dream of an angel, telling him to go to Egypt, because Herod was going to try to find and kill Jesus. Herod gave orders for all the baby boys, in and around Bethlehem to be killed. (There is no historical record of this.) After Herod died, Joseph had another dream telling him to take Mary and Jesus back to Israel. When they got there and heard Herod's son was ruling in Judea, where they had come from, they were afraid. Another dream told him to go live in Nazareth of Galilee. (Those dreams were very helpful.)
What do we not find in this story:
-Zachariah, Elizabeth and the birth of John
-Mary being visited by Gabriel
-Mary visiting Elizabeth
-Mary speaking/ singing
-Mary and Joseph being previous residents of Nazareth
-A census and Quirinius as governor (He replaced Herod's son)
-A manger
-Shepherds with Angels
-The circumcision of Jesus and the presentation of him at at the temple
-Simeon and Anna
-Anything supported by the contemporary history of that time, except place names, Herod, and his son.
*The people of that time made a habit of studying the stars and keeping records of unusual things in the sky. There is no historical record of such a star appearing in the time frame required. Plus, stars are so far away, no one could tell if one was directly over a particular house, and they don't stop, start, and move freely.
Edited.
The Nativity part 3- the main characters
In order of appearance:
Matthew-
*Joseph- son of Jacob, the 39th generation descendant of Abraham through David, a righteous man, saw an angel in his dreams.
*Mary- virgin, pledged to marry Joseph, found to be with child through the Holy Spirit, gave birth to Jesus in Bethlehem.
*Jesus-Son of Mary and the Holy Spirit, 40th generation from Abraham though not related, born in Bethlehem, prophesy said he was to be called Immanuel but he was named Jesus.
*An angel of the lord-unknown name, appears to Joseph in dreams, does not appear to anyone else.
*King Herod-worried about his position as King of the Jews, murdered children.
*Magi- from the east, possibly Zoroastrian astrologers, found Jesus in a house and gave him presents, outsmarted Herod.
*The chief priests and teachers of the law-Jews that Herod consulted about the Christ.
Luke-
*King Herod- King of Judea, no other info.
*Zachariah- a priest of the division of Abijah, upright, blameless, father of John, prophesied his son would be a prophet.
*Elizabeth- older cousin of Mary, mother of John, lives in a Judean hill country town, possibly Bethlehem, upright, blameless.
*An angel of the lord (Gabriel)-appears in person to Zachariah in the temple and to Mary in Nazareth, to announce that each of them would have a son and foretold the greatness of John and Jesus,told Mary to name her child Jesus, brought news of Jesus's birth to shepherds.
*Joseph-from Nazareth, a descendant of David, son of Heli (3:23), 55 generations from Abraham, 85 generations from Adam.
*Mary-lives in Nazareth, a virgin, pledged to marry Joseph, "overshadowed" by the Holy Spirit which caused her to be pregnant, sang a poetic/ prophetic song.
*John (the baptist)- son of Zachariah and Elizabeth, circumcised on the eighth day, his father's prophesy said he would become a prophet.
*Caesar Augustus- emperor of Rome, issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire roman world.
*Quirinius- governor of Syria during the census.
*Jesus- conceived by the Holy Spirit, born in Bethlehem, slept in a manger, circumcised on the eighth day, Gabriel prophesied he would be called the son of the most high and would reign on the throne of David, his kingdom would never end, 56 generations from Abraham, 86 generations from Adam.
*Shepherds-living in the fields watching their flocks, given a message by an angel, saw more Angels praising God, saw Jesus in the manger.
*More Angels- praised God.
*Simeon-righteous, devout, told by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he saw the christ, saw Jesus and prophesied about Him.
*Anna- prophetess, daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher, eighty for year old widow, lived in the temple fasting and praying, saw Jesus and prophesied about him.
We can see that beside Joseph, Mary, Jesus, and an angel, Matthew and Luke have a completely different cast of characters. Plus, some details about the core characters differ.
Matthew-
*Joseph- son of Jacob, the 39th generation descendant of Abraham through David, a righteous man, saw an angel in his dreams.
*Mary- virgin, pledged to marry Joseph, found to be with child through the Holy Spirit, gave birth to Jesus in Bethlehem.
*Jesus-Son of Mary and the Holy Spirit, 40th generation from Abraham though not related, born in Bethlehem, prophesy said he was to be called Immanuel but he was named Jesus.
*An angel of the lord-unknown name, appears to Joseph in dreams, does not appear to anyone else.
*King Herod-worried about his position as King of the Jews, murdered children.
*Magi- from the east, possibly Zoroastrian astrologers, found Jesus in a house and gave him presents, outsmarted Herod.
*The chief priests and teachers of the law-Jews that Herod consulted about the Christ.
Luke-
*King Herod- King of Judea, no other info.
*Zachariah- a priest of the division of Abijah, upright, blameless, father of John, prophesied his son would be a prophet.
*Elizabeth- older cousin of Mary, mother of John, lives in a Judean hill country town, possibly Bethlehem, upright, blameless.
*An angel of the lord (Gabriel)-appears in person to Zachariah in the temple and to Mary in Nazareth, to announce that each of them would have a son and foretold the greatness of John and Jesus,told Mary to name her child Jesus, brought news of Jesus's birth to shepherds.
*Joseph-from Nazareth, a descendant of David, son of Heli (3:23), 55 generations from Abraham, 85 generations from Adam.
*Mary-lives in Nazareth, a virgin, pledged to marry Joseph, "overshadowed" by the Holy Spirit which caused her to be pregnant, sang a poetic/ prophetic song.
*John (the baptist)- son of Zachariah and Elizabeth, circumcised on the eighth day, his father's prophesy said he would become a prophet.
*Caesar Augustus- emperor of Rome, issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire roman world.
*Quirinius- governor of Syria during the census.
*Jesus- conceived by the Holy Spirit, born in Bethlehem, slept in a manger, circumcised on the eighth day, Gabriel prophesied he would be called the son of the most high and would reign on the throne of David, his kingdom would never end, 56 generations from Abraham, 86 generations from Adam.
*Shepherds-living in the fields watching their flocks, given a message by an angel, saw more Angels praising God, saw Jesus in the manger.
*More Angels- praised God.
*Simeon-righteous, devout, told by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he saw the christ, saw Jesus and prophesied about Him.
*Anna- prophetess, daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher, eighty for year old widow, lived in the temple fasting and praying, saw Jesus and prophesied about him.
We can see that beside Joseph, Mary, Jesus, and an angel, Matthew and Luke have a completely different cast of characters. Plus, some details about the core characters differ.
Friday, December 18, 2015
The Nativity part 2- the setting
Question: When did the birth of Jesus take place?
Answer: It depends which story you are reading. Matthew says " during the time of King Herod." This Herod died approximately 4 B.C.E., so Jesus must have been born before then. According to the text, the baby could have been as much as two years old by the time Herod found out about him. ( chapter 2:16) This would mean Jesus could have been born around 6 B.C.E. Or even a year or two earlier. The text says Joseph and Mary took the child to Egypt and stayed there till Herod died. (2:14) We are not told how long that was.
The book of Luke starts off with the pregnancy of Mary's cousin Elizabeth,"In the time of King Herod." ( chapter 1:5) Six months later, Mary is pregnant with Jesus. (1:26). So far, so good. However, when we get to Jesus's birth, we are told it was when " Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census be taken of the entire Roman world. This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria." (2:1-3)
A problem arises because the historical records clearly show that Quirinius was not governor of Syria till 6 C.E., which is also when he began the census of the province of Judea. There was no Census of the entire Roman world at that time. Augustus taxed the citizens of Rome and the provinces in different ways. This would place Jesus's birth a decade after the death of Herod, who was supposedly alive when Jesus was conceived. Matthew's story does not mention Quirinius or a census.
Question: Where does the birth story take place?
Answer: Matthew's tale begins with the birth in Bethlehem of Judea, supposedly to fulfill Micah 5:2., which is a cryptic prophecy of a future ruler of Israel, similar to David. Then Jesus is taken to Egypt, supposedly to fulfill " Out of Egypt I have called my son." (Hosea 11:1) which is is merely a reference to the Exodus. After that, Jesus's family supposedly settles in Nazareth of Galilee to fulfill "he will be called a Nazarene," which is not an Old Testament prophecy at all. Plus, there is some question about whether a person living in Nazareth was called a Nazarene. Matthew does not mention travel to Bethlehem from Galilee with or without a 9 months pregnant Mary on a donkey. There is no mention of registering for a census, a barn or stable, or a trip to Jerusalem to be consecrated.
Luke's story begins with Mary being visited by Gabriel in Nazareth of Galilee. Mary then goes to a town in the hill country of Judea, where her cousin Elizabeth lived. Interestingly, Bethlehem was a town in the hill country of Judea. Mary stays three months, then returns home. Then Joseph also goes from Nazareth to Judea to register for the census with Mary, supposedly because he was from the house of David, but the Romans would not have cared who his jewish ancestors were. After Jesus's birth he was put to bed in a manger, but the text does not say he was born in a barn or stable. At least forty days after his birth, when Mary was ceremonially clean, Jesus was taken to the temple in Jerusalem to be consecrated to the lord. After that Joseph and Mary returned to Nazareth in Galilee. No mention is made of any side trip to Egypt or any prophecies.
Edited.
Answer: It depends which story you are reading. Matthew says " during the time of King Herod." This Herod died approximately 4 B.C.E., so Jesus must have been born before then. According to the text, the baby could have been as much as two years old by the time Herod found out about him. ( chapter 2:16) This would mean Jesus could have been born around 6 B.C.E. Or even a year or two earlier. The text says Joseph and Mary took the child to Egypt and stayed there till Herod died. (2:14) We are not told how long that was.
The book of Luke starts off with the pregnancy of Mary's cousin Elizabeth,"In the time of King Herod." ( chapter 1:5) Six months later, Mary is pregnant with Jesus. (1:26). So far, so good. However, when we get to Jesus's birth, we are told it was when " Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census be taken of the entire Roman world. This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria." (2:1-3)
A problem arises because the historical records clearly show that Quirinius was not governor of Syria till 6 C.E., which is also when he began the census of the province of Judea. There was no Census of the entire Roman world at that time. Augustus taxed the citizens of Rome and the provinces in different ways. This would place Jesus's birth a decade after the death of Herod, who was supposedly alive when Jesus was conceived. Matthew's story does not mention Quirinius or a census.
Question: Where does the birth story take place?
Answer: Matthew's tale begins with the birth in Bethlehem of Judea, supposedly to fulfill Micah 5:2., which is a cryptic prophecy of a future ruler of Israel, similar to David. Then Jesus is taken to Egypt, supposedly to fulfill " Out of Egypt I have called my son." (Hosea 11:1) which is is merely a reference to the Exodus. After that, Jesus's family supposedly settles in Nazareth of Galilee to fulfill "he will be called a Nazarene," which is not an Old Testament prophecy at all. Plus, there is some question about whether a person living in Nazareth was called a Nazarene. Matthew does not mention travel to Bethlehem from Galilee with or without a 9 months pregnant Mary on a donkey. There is no mention of registering for a census, a barn or stable, or a trip to Jerusalem to be consecrated.
Luke's story begins with Mary being visited by Gabriel in Nazareth of Galilee. Mary then goes to a town in the hill country of Judea, where her cousin Elizabeth lived. Interestingly, Bethlehem was a town in the hill country of Judea. Mary stays three months, then returns home. Then Joseph also goes from Nazareth to Judea to register for the census with Mary, supposedly because he was from the house of David, but the Romans would not have cared who his jewish ancestors were. After Jesus's birth he was put to bed in a manger, but the text does not say he was born in a barn or stable. At least forty days after his birth, when Mary was ceremonially clean, Jesus was taken to the temple in Jerusalem to be consecrated to the lord. After that Joseph and Mary returned to Nazareth in Galilee. No mention is made of any side trip to Egypt or any prophecies.
Edited.
Thursday, December 17, 2015
The Nativity part 1- the authors
The Nativity
The purpose of the next few articles will be to establish what can and can't be known about the birth of Jesus, by asking a series of simple questions that have fairly simple answers.
First, we will ask,"Where can we find reliable extrabiblical historical information about the birth of a first century male named Jesus who corresponds to the Jesus in the bible?"
Answer: nowhere. There is absolutely no known mention of his birth in the historical record outside the bible, contemporary with that time period.
Question: Where are the circumstances of his birth clearly recorded in the bible? (This does not include supposed prophesies.)
Answer: Only in two books, Matthew and Luke.
Question: Who wrote the books of Matthew and Luke?
Answer: No one knows. The authors are anonymous. The text makes no claim about their identity.
Question: Could either of the authors have been an eye witness to the events?
Answer: Not a chance. Not only do they not claim to have been there, Matthew and Luke would have been mere children themselves, or not even born yet, if they ever existed in the first place. This means we are getting Matthew's story second or third hand at best. In the case of the book of Luke, it would be third hand at the very least, and that's being generous.
Question: Do Matthew or Luke reveal the sources of their information?
Answer: No.
Question: When was the book of Matthew written?
Answer: Most scholars think it falls within 70-110 C.E. We will see that this means it was not written till at least 64-74years after the events supposedly took place, depending on which version you read. Plus it could have been written as much as 115 years after the events.
Question: When was the book of Luke written?
Answer: The probable dates are between 80-100 C.E. Time spans similar to the book of Matthew, between events and writing, apply.
Question: Do Matthew and Luke tell the same story?
Answer: (spoiler) NO. The stories are about the same three people, Mary, Joseph, and Jesus, but we will see that they differ in most of the details.
Question: Are Matthew and Luke reliable sources for the birth of Jesus?
Answer: You tell me. In today's world, would you accept a story of a virgin birth told third hand by an anonymous person, from an unknown original source, with no outside corroboration?
Question: Are there any extrabiblical accounts of the nativity?
Answer: There are some apocryphal gospels that contain accounts of Jesus birth, but they are usually considered unreliable, even by christians.
Edited.
The purpose of the next few articles will be to establish what can and can't be known about the birth of Jesus, by asking a series of simple questions that have fairly simple answers.
First, we will ask,"Where can we find reliable extrabiblical historical information about the birth of a first century male named Jesus who corresponds to the Jesus in the bible?"
Answer: nowhere. There is absolutely no known mention of his birth in the historical record outside the bible, contemporary with that time period.
Question: Where are the circumstances of his birth clearly recorded in the bible? (This does not include supposed prophesies.)
Answer: Only in two books, Matthew and Luke.
Question: Who wrote the books of Matthew and Luke?
Answer: No one knows. The authors are anonymous. The text makes no claim about their identity.
Question: Could either of the authors have been an eye witness to the events?
Answer: Not a chance. Not only do they not claim to have been there, Matthew and Luke would have been mere children themselves, or not even born yet, if they ever existed in the first place. This means we are getting Matthew's story second or third hand at best. In the case of the book of Luke, it would be third hand at the very least, and that's being generous.
Question: Do Matthew or Luke reveal the sources of their information?
Answer: No.
Question: When was the book of Matthew written?
Answer: Most scholars think it falls within 70-110 C.E. We will see that this means it was not written till at least 64-74years after the events supposedly took place, depending on which version you read. Plus it could have been written as much as 115 years after the events.
Question: When was the book of Luke written?
Answer: The probable dates are between 80-100 C.E. Time spans similar to the book of Matthew, between events and writing, apply.
Question: Do Matthew and Luke tell the same story?
Answer: (spoiler) NO. The stories are about the same three people, Mary, Joseph, and Jesus, but we will see that they differ in most of the details.
Question: Are Matthew and Luke reliable sources for the birth of Jesus?
Answer: You tell me. In today's world, would you accept a story of a virgin birth told third hand by an anonymous person, from an unknown original source, with no outside corroboration?
Question: Are there any extrabiblical accounts of the nativity?
Answer: There are some apocryphal gospels that contain accounts of Jesus birth, but they are usually considered unreliable, even by christians.
Edited.
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